Christianity and Islam: A different God or a different mode of Worship

if i may ask the 'We and Our' in the text above who r those it refers to, because if it refers to Allah shouldn't it be like 'I(Allah) and not We(Allah)
i'm just asking and not attacking

That was a very good question, ebunlomo.

To answer it, I would like you to take note of these points:
* The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic.
* Arabic, like Hebrew (the language of Moses) and Aramaic (the language spoken by Jesus[peace be upon them and our Prophet]), is a Semitic language.

Now, in Semitic languages, there are two types of plural: plural of number and plural of majesty. In the former, the plural is used to denote more than one thing, and in the latter, important personalities (such as kings) refer to themselves when they speak. This tradition has also filtered into Nigeria--Hausaland to be specific. You will never hear the Hausa referring to more than one person or thing in the plural but you will certainly hear the royalty referring to themsleves in the plural. Thus, while an ordinary man from Kano will say, for example, "I appreciate what you have done", the Emir of Kano says: "We appreciate what you have done". Sorry I digress.

So, in the Qur'an, when Allah is making important prononcements, He uses the plural of majesty. I beleive the same thing obtained in the Bible, but when Gentiles who did not have similar expressions in their language came to read the Bible, they easily imported the idea of a number of persons in one (i.e. the Trinity).

tnx 4 answering my question
 can't really say about that, but i don't think so

Why don't we all start researching. Afterall the aim of all this is for us to understand and be increased in knowledge, not so?

muslims will h8 me 4 this but imma say it neways my dad is a muslim mum a christian so iv seen d 2 religions n iv also seen alot of muslim families 2.we def don't serve d same GOd deir God permits a man 2 marry 4 wivs our GOd permits us 2 marry just 1 deir God apparently permits violence and killin of pple nehw dey wnt just 2 prove deir point but our God says when dey slap u on 1 syd turn d oda so pls hw can u even ask if its d same God!!!dey r bombing thngs n killin pple 2 defend deir religion tell me hw can we even compare deir God 2 ours??dey r completely differentluk at this 4 example now d davinci code is quite blasphemphous it goes agenst evrythn christians believe yet it ddnt bring about ne war christians wer nt happy bout it but u don't see dem bombing d publishers or d author of d book or nethn lyk that.rememba d tym when der ws a pic of one of d holy islamic prophets in d midst of prostitutes??we all knw wht happend den and if ne1 dare do sumthn lyk d davinci code related 2 islam.....lets nt even boda sef nobody has d liver 2 try that cos he knws hell be dead a few days after d book is publishd

ya about d davinci code thn it ws barned in sum places i thnk but it wsnt war.im not sayin ders nethn rung with islam oh or christianity is beta or bla bla bla.im just sayin its deff diff GOds n diff modes of worship d same way human beings r diff is d sem way religions r different so evry religion has its own thingy its just left 2 u 2 decide d 1 dt suits your own character as a human being and what u believe in

Ever since I read this submission, I have been thinking very hard about it. I also went back to the Scriptures to see whether I can have some bearing.

I think I have answered some of the issues raised, but some are still outstanding. The one's I have answered are the proper concept of worship  in Islam (I said everything a Muslim does is a remembrance or celebration of the Name of His Lord if done according to the guidelines set out for the guidance of mankind; I might add that in Islam a Muslim is called so because the totality of his life is submitted to the Will of the Lord)and the Muslim's relations with his Lord (where I said he does not need to go through anybody for the Lord Almighty is close to him).

The outstanding issues are that Muslims cannot comprehend why God should be called father or friend, and that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.

On the issue of God being a father or friend, the Qur'an tells us that it is never possible for Him to take a son for Himself - it is humans who need children. And if the term father is used figuratively to denote love, the Arabic word Rabb (looosely translated in English as LORD) connotes far more intimate relationship. Rabb means, in summary, the sustainer, the darling, and the cherisher. As for the word father, if in any language it means the same as Arabic Rabb, Muslims will likely desist from using it to avoid falling into the trap of ascribing partners to Allah Almighty (Exalted be His Name).

As for friend, the Qur'an calls the Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham), peace be upon him, khalilullah (meaning the trusted  friend, or confidant, of Allah), and the says to the Muslims "in Ibrahim you have a model worthy of emulation" - meaning they should also try to the darlings, the trustes friends of Allah.

Finally, having looked at the associations and ascriptions that necessarily go with God in Christianity, I reluctantly begin to agree that the Musilims do not worship the same God the Christians worship. In Christianity, God is necessarily three in one. In Islam, the Qur'an says: "Say (O Muhammad): 'He is Allah the One and Only. Allah, the eternally besought of all. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him'".

Olaomo,

From what you have said, the following can clearly be adduced:

1. Because your father is muslim, you think you know Islam. It is, in fact, one thing to be a Muslim and quite another to be a practising Muslim.

2. You think your God said you should marry only 1 wife while that of Muslims permits them to marry more than 1.

3. The God of the Muslims order them to kill people and destroy property.

Like I started saying, it is one thing being Musilim and another practising Islam. In other words, you cannot judge Islam by looking at 1 Muslim: you need to study Islam. The fact is that many Muslims themselves do not care to know the religion. As such many things are being committed in the name of the religion, which have not been sanctioned by the religion. So you need to study the Qur'an, the Ahaadith (sayings and practices of the Prophet of Islam) and other authentic religious books of Islam to understand the religion. I say authentic because there are Orientalists who feel they know everything about Islam, but the moment they open their mouths to speak on the religion, they reveal their ignorance.

Secondly, go into the Bible and read it carefully. Find out how many wives Abraham had. Find out how many wives David and Solomon had, how many wives other prophets mentioned in the Bible had. Then read about the Qur'anic permissionto marry more than 1 wife, and the reason(s) for that. Meanwhile it may interest you to know that Muslims are permitted, not ordered to marry more than 1 wife where such will be beneficial to the woman, or even the society at large (more on this some other time).

Thirdly, Muslims have been permitted to go to war to defend themselves against any aggression. But the Christians who claim to have been ordered to turn the other cheek started the crusade during which they mercilessly sacked Muslim cities. When they waged war, Muslims were ordered not to kill anyone who did not bear arms; they were not to kill women and children, not even a tree were they allowed to destroy. You may find some cases where some people abused these teachings; but it will be unfair to attribute the wrong doings of a number of people to the religion of Islam as a whole. The meaning of Islam, in case you do not know, is "Peace".

Wow interesting topic here:) Here's my 2c.

Let me start by saying I am a believer in Jesus Christ, so my thoughts will always stem from that perspective. However, I will attempt to engage your intellect.

The way I see it is this. 'Christianity' (hate that term, but that's another issue) is the only religion that challenges by making 'factual' statements - factual in the the sense that truth is truth regardless of what you believe.
The starting point for me (or any thinking person for that matter) is "do I believe the bible to be the word of God?"

If one does not believe that to be true then no amount of arguing will ever satisfy the soul.

If you take the bible to be what it claims to be "The Word of God" then you will at some point in your life have to face certain aspects of it.

1. Do I really just have to accept what Jesus went through to save me?
2. Why do I need to be saved anyway; saved from what?
3. Assuming I bye this what next? It is at this point that religion sets in and we have some much confusing. As so many people just can't accept that it's that simple, so they want us to do more that what God said.

I know it's a good thing to read about other religions to get an understanding of what they believe, but for me the question I had to ask myself was there from the beginning.

"What if the Bible is correct"?

What if? That my friends is the question.

What if the bible is what it claims to be? Forget religion now.. this is just picking up some book, reading it, and it claims to be the word of God.

On the issue of Islam  and Christianity worshiping the same God.. I stand with Zandra. They cannot be. Why would God in one book say listen to Muhammad and then in another say "oh by the way no one can come to me except through Jesus... [paraphrased]"? Unless you want to tell me the books don't matter; i.e. the books are from men and not God. oh wait... I know what you're gonna tell me "God wrote it and then men changed it, so he sent another book [seriously?]" In both cases I direct you to my opening remark. If you do not believe the bible to be the word of God then you can't possibly argue out the truth of the matter as the only way to know God, according to the bible, is to try him. The only way to do that is "...must first come believing that He IS and is a rewarder of those who seek him"

You don't even need to read the bible to find him. Many in the bible have worshiped the one true God without knowing it and found him as a result. I am sure if you asked him to reveal himself he will.

In conclusion, if anything I have written offends anyone I apologise, and please understand this is not my intention.

I must say that I found your argument VERY SELF-CONTRADICTORY.

In one breath, you are giving room for argument, and in the next you are closing all doors for argument whatsoever. You even deny your audience the chance to ask critical questions. This reminds me of a Hausa saying popular with children: A ba ka kwabo a hana ka kashewa (meaning You are given money but denied the right to spend it)!

Look at what you are saying: I give you a drug and tell you that it cures headache. By your reaction, I feel you do not believe me (i.e. you don't believe that efficacy of the drug). Then I tell you that if you doubt me try it (the drug) and see. But I quickly add that unless you believe in its efficacy, the drug will not work!

If you believe in something, you do not argue it, do you? If, for example, I believe the Bible to be the word of God, I will not doubt it. But to say that one must believe to argue is just like saying you cannot convince one, and, therefore, they must believe b4 you try to.

What is the purpose of man's power of reasoning, if I may ask? The Prophet of Islam said: "Allah has not created anything more important than reason". And the Holy Qur'an says: "Do they not consider the Qur'an?" In other words why do people not use their power of reasoning to find out whether the Qur'an is God's Word or not? Now this is the "acid test" that should be used to prove the case. The Qur'an continues: "If it (the Holy Qur'an) were from other than Allah, they would have found much discreoancies therein".

Let us then apply this principle - that God's Word is free of any discrepancy - and critically examine any book that claims to be from God Almighty.

As for the Muslim view of the Bible, it contains three classes of statements, vis *the Word of God; * the word of a Prophet of God; and * the word of other people.

My Friend:) The reason I stated that there is no point arguing or that in fact no amount of arguing can convince anyone is because the Bible, as much as it deals with logic and intelligence, is fundamentally a FAITH issue.

For example, Islam denies the idea of a Tri-union God, but this is at the heart of our Belief. And I am sure there is no amount of debating that can explain this mystery. Therefore, faith in the word is required. Just because God gave us reason does not mean everything in life can be explained.

The Christian life is not just about reading the Bible. It is also experience. The whole point of becoming a christian is to have a relationship with God. That implies, I don't know anything about God to start with, but the more I know him the better I understand him.

We have so many people in life who read the Bible, and even understand aspects of it much better than I, but do not have a clue about the God the Bible speaks about - hence FAITH.

Anyway, let us stick to the point of this thread which is whether we serve the same God or not.

The existence of the idea of a Tri-Union God (Three-in-one God) is one of our fundamental beliefs. Islam cannot accept or agree with this therefore we must certainly do not serve the same God.

You say Jesus is a prophet: we say he is God, so again how can he be both a prophet and God? If he is God then who did he pray to while on earth? unless there were two other people he could talk to. Also why did he say he would send us the Holy Spirit after he left earth, if there was only one person who is God. Like I said earlier this is a mystery, so please do not attempt to explain it to me. It's a FAITH thing.
I merely use it to explain my point. I do not comprehend it either.

The doctrine of trinity is  not accepted by all factions of Christianity and thus cannot be at the heart of our belief, Can it?

he has a very good point and evry aspect of christianity believes in faith believin without seein don't thnk ders ne bible dt doesnt say that

My brother Mikey

I quite understand what you mean. Fact is, faith is the foundation of every religion, belief, ideology or creed. However, I wonder how and when you cultivated this faith that is so - don't be offended please - dogmatic and - again, excuse my choice of words - fanatical?

Just take a look at what I'm saying, and this is not digressing from the subject of our debate - the similarities or differences in our modes of worship and ideas of the One worshipped necessarily derive from our Holy Scriptures, to which we must refer back for proper understanding - is that the human element that has been introduced into the Bible is the point of departure between the Muslim concept of God and that of the Christians. Essentially, all prophets, from Adam to Muhammad (peace be upon them all) came with the same guidance from the same source. However some were sent to a specific community (I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel) while others were sent  to mankind as a whole (And [God has] not sent thee but as a mercy to all mankind).

But to see all these doctrines in their proper perspectives, we have to critically examine what we've been fed as the word of God. See, for example, the message I posted on February 13, and try to offer me a logical explanation for the manifest contradiction in the Bible as well as how I can possibly associate it with God.

"Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds; the Beneficent the Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgement; You alone we do worship, and You alone we ask for help; guide us unto the Straight Path; the Path of those whom You have favoured; not the path of those earn your wrath, nor of those who go astray" (Qur'an 1:1-7)

I have highlighted your main points and I will try to keep this short [ya right].

Human Element:
Anyhoo... Like I said before, Faith is everything. To me the Qur'an, conveniently I might add, [no offence intended just emphasising the point] declaring all Holy books before it as null seems a little bit too convenient.
Suppose, lets say, this was never written in the Qur'an? Then what?


For all the Human 'element' that people say exist in the Bible, it has stood the test of everything thrown at it. The logic behind this is simple: 'to err is human' as they say to date every seemingly 'contraction' in the Bible has been squashed by further study and understanding. Why do you think it is the only book in the world that has so many peoples and nation trying to prove it wrong? All failing, I might add.

Dogmatic Faith:
Unfortunately, only death, without experience, can prove it to be true and for that I am truly sorry for all those that will be lost. I know that God exists, not because of what I have been though or read, but because I have experienced him. This is why I have a dogmatic belief in His word. I cannot convince anyone of this, as this is God task, but I can only share the goodnews that opened the door to this relationship.

A new twist:
"...sent to specific people..." It is not surprising that as usual, and like every other person seeking to 'prove' the Bible wrong, you have not read deeper. You will never find me quoting the Qur'an because I know I have not read the whole thing enough nor do I understand it enough to the make an educated conclusion as to what every aspect of the book refers to.
Anyone can quote a book out of context, and sadly a lot of Christians have done this to further some agenda they have, but the truth or heart of the book will always remain the same and only by siting down with the writer can anyone truly understand what was meant.

It's like all these so called art critics. It's one thing telling me what you think of an art piece, it's a completely different thing trying to tell me what the Artist was thinking when he/she composed the piece.
This is what most people try to do with the Bible. They do not have a revelation (been made aware/in relationship with) the author yet they claim to understand its contradictions. If God is God I would like to believe He knows enough of what he is talking about not to contradict himself. Therefore, I challenge anyone to meet the author, understand his work, and then show me the contradictions.

I think this is the best advice you could have come up with. {Will the real God please stand up!} I believe He has. He lives in me:)

Anyway, to the main point. My Bible says Jesus is God, your Qur'an says he is a prophet... again I say they both can't be correct.

Man! and there I said I would keep it short. If only I were God.

Thank you very much for that short discourse, although I would have liked it to be more detailed, then, perhaps, it would address some of the points I raised.

By saying "The logic behind this is simple: 'to err is human' as they say" are you admitting that the Bible was actually written by humans?

"I challenge anyone to meet the author, understand his work, and then show me the contradictions." (Perhaps you didn't read my message carefully - for an example of contradiction, that is - if you need more I can gladly supply them). How do I contact the author(s), if they lived many ages ago - as a matter of fact, a number of books in the Bible have not been traced to their real authors (see the notes on the Books of the Bible at the end of the RSV by Collins).

How deeply do I have to peruse the following to come into the light as to its author? "For as much as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest knoe the certainty of those thigs, wherein thou hast been instructed" (The gospel according to Saint Luke as reported in the Authorised Version).

And, rather than give me the context of whatever I mention, you continuosly accuse me of quoting out of context - what is the text and what is the context?

"Suppose, lets say, this was never written in the Qur'an? Then what?" Simple: The Qur'an always asks us to demand for proof - so prove it! Go to the Qur'an, read it, study it, listen to it, prove your point.

The Qur'an agrees that God cannot be the author of confusion. All words that come from - or are inspired by - God necessarily need to support, and not contradict each other.

"O people of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Come to common  terms with us: that we worship none but Allah and that we ascribe no partners to Him" (Holy Qur'an).

We could go on forever trust me. The truth of the bible can never be argued out. It wouldn't matter what chapters or verses I quoted, the fact that the Qur'an claims the Bible is of no relevance as it was 'written by men' will always influence your discussion. Just as the fact that Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" will always influence mine.

We see and understand from two different perspectives. The one thing outside intellect that I know I have is experience. I know that I have met the one true God and that's enough for me. It's his world, his creation, his eternity, so I am sure he will do what he will to bring us all to understanding.

Let us leave it at that eh my brother. You can contact me directly if you want, but I think we have used up quite a few pages on this one.

In the book of John14:6;"Jesus said I`m the way,the truth and the life,no one comes to the Father but by Me." Think about this

Peace!

According to holy Quran holy Jesus said:

Verily Allah -- he is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is the right path. (ch 43, v 65)

No religion at its source has ever permitted the use of force in any form whatsoever. In fact all religions have been made targets of coercion, and no efforts were spared by their opponents to arrest the growth of religions at their source and to annihilate them completely. Every time a new prophet came, attempts were invariably made by the enemies to suppress his message through the use of force and merciless persecution. It is the most tragic irony therefore that of all the books, the Holy Quran is singled out today as proponent of the employment of coercion for the sake of the spread of its message. Even greater tragedy lies in the fact that it is the Muslim clergy itself which loudly propounds this view, blatantly attributing it to the Holy Quran.

Fight against them by means Of it (the Quran) a great fight Surah Al-Furqan (Ch. 25, V,53)

These are the very words of the Quran which throw light on the nature of Jihad. It must be fought by means of the Quran and the Quranic message alone. Again, to tame one's rebellious nature into complete submission to God is another form of Jihad which is in fact the greater Jihad, according to the Holy Prophet of Islam. On returning from a battle, he is reported to have said:

We are returning from the lesser Jihad to the greater Jihad.

Of course, defensive war is permitted only on the condition that the enemies initiate hostilities and raise sword against a weak, defenceless people for having committed the only crime of declaring that God is their Lord. All offensive wars according to Islam are unholy.
 
http://www.alislam.org/books/study-of-islam/jihad.html

Can any one say that first and second world war were due to christianity? eventhough it were christians involved alalong!

Of course, christianity was not to blame.

Fact of the matter is religion is easy platform to use for political gains. THIS IS STILL HAPPENING.